We're warned in 2 Corinthians 11:3,4 that it is possible to be led astray after another Jesus, other than the one Paul preached...
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted - you may well put up with it! 2 Corinthians 11:3,4
And another Jesus, and another gospel, other than the one Paul preached are dangerous to tolerate - in Galatians 1:6-8 we read:
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-8
Those are strong words, which means we must be very careful what kind of doctrines (teachings) about Christ we will embrace or reject. The question remains "Who do you say that I am?" - those were the very words of our Lord to the disciples, and that will one day make all the difference to you and me, when we stand before God. It is interesting also, to note that there is only ONE view of Christ that is biblical, as the very God become man to redeem us. This God who is love, did the very greatest act of love, which is to give your very life for your friends. All deviant views of Christ reject this. The cults who reject the deity of Christ are standing in the same corner as the muslims, the atheists, and all other world religions. Christianity alone is marked by it's clinging to orthodoxy on this very important point.
Fortunately truth is not determined by numbers or popularity! Truth will stand regardless of the onslaught against it. Truth was put to death over 2000 years ago, and three days later, Truth rose up, alive, breathing and powerful.
Some other thoughts:
never EVER in all scripture is it allowed to pray THROUGH someone or something to God... Also no prayer is ever DIRECTED TO someone besides God Almighty.
No angel received prayer, no human prophet or king... they didn't even receive it and let it pass through them to God. This is a heathen practice.
At the end of Acts 7, Stephen, when being stoned and facing death, full of the power of the Holy Spirit, prayed saying "Lord Jesus, receive my Spirit". He was not praying through, but to Jesus... but even if you want to believe he was praying through Jesus, this wouldn't be permitted unless Jesus is God.
never EVER in all scripture is it allowed that a person has the power to forgive sins. Even the priests of Israel did not forgive sins, but relayed the message of forgiveness after the legitimate sacrifice was made according to God's instructions.
This is why the Pharisee's were so enraged when Jesus forgave the sins of the man lowered to Him through the roof... and so, to prove the authority He claimed, He ordered the cripple to stand up and take his bed and walk!
never EVER in all scripture do prophets, judges or kings, or even angels, messengers from heaven, speak and declare the things of God, accept in the name of God and by God's authority.
Yet Jesus, when declaring things relating to God often said "I say to you", instead of "God says thus".
Showing posts with label Jesus. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Jesus. Show all posts
Wednesday, 29 July 2009
Wednesday, 15 July 2009
"Did Jesus actually ever exist?"
Some conversations I have had recently have gone on the topic of Jesus' actual existence. There seems to be a popular challenge going around these days to question everything we know, and even assume that which we know is myth or incorrect. Just under two years ago, I'd done some research which I added to a thoughtleader.co.za post, where the author had himself asked the very same question.
I replied with this response (edited), which I feel specifically is a strong argument. The reason I think this is that often the people asking the question of Jesus' existence logically don't hold a high view of scripture and it's accuracy. The accuracy of scripture is a whole other discussion, and could in itself be seen as a distraction from the main point, so I decided to reply from the perspective of extra-biblical accounts of the true historical Jesus. Here are some references and thoughts on that:
- Extra-biblical accounts of Jesus and Christians
There is more extra-biblical evidence of the person of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, than there is of Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great. This has been disputed and challenged, and so I reply with this:
Let’s start recently and move backwards. We have the Protestant Christians today, starting with Luther about 400 years back. So Christianity is definitely as old as that. We have the Roman Catholic Christians. We know that in the 9th Century AD there was a division between the Eastern (or Greek Orthodox) church and Western (or Roman) church. Hence we know it dates back to at least then. We also know that in the 4th Century AD, Christianity had become so powerful that it had pretty much taken possession of the Roman Empire, the mightiest power of the world at that time.
Going earlier, we have Eusebius in 315 AD who wrote a large volume, giving the history of Christ and his church. We also have the testimony of about a hundred Christian authors, dating to the first 3 Centuries.
Let’s set that aside, because if Jesus is in fact a myth made up by dubious early Christians (paranoid anyone?) - we’d need to focus on non-Christian accounts.
Here are 11 of the most noted authors and historians of antiquity, reaching from the middle of the fourth century back to the very days of Christ himself.
Julian (361 A.D.) Julian was a Roman emperor who saw fit to try very hard to put down Christianity. He wrote a book against Christianity, in which he acknowledged that there were multitudes of Christians in Greece and Italy in the days of the apostles, and that many of them were men of high character, such as Cornelius and Sergius Paulus, proconsul of Cyprus. [Lardner’s Works, vol viii. pp.394-411]
Porphyry (270 A.D.) This learned writer acknowledges that Christians were very numerous in the Roman Empire. He admits that miracles were wrought by the apostles (which he ascribed to a magic art). He endeavours to expose them to reproach as the cause of the calamities that befell the Roman Empire. [Horne’s Introduction, vol 1 p. 209]
Galen (220 A.D.) Acknowledges the virtuous principles of the Christians. [Lardner’s Works, vol. viii pp. 90, 91]
Marcus Antoninus (161 A.D.) mentions Christians as furnishing examples of an obstinate contempt of death [Id. vol vii. p 398]
Epictetus (109 A.D.) Mentions the fortitude and constancy of the Christians under persecution. He calls them Galileans.
Lucian (176 A.D.) in his numerous writings bears testimony to the leading facts and principles of Christianity. He says that Christ was crucified in Israel and was worshiped by the Christians. He mentions their contempt for this world, and how they courageously suffered for their religion. He mentions that they were noted for their honesty and integrity, that they were well known in the world, and that they were numerous in Pontus and Paphlagonia and adjoining countries. He ridicules many of their practices and doctrines.
Pliny the Younger (107 A.D.) wrote a detailed letter regarding Christians and seeking advice regarding carrying out his instructions to punish Christians.
Suetonius (65 A.D.) The first general persecution of the Christians was in 65 A.D. under Nero, the tyrant under whom Paul was martyred. This Roman historian said “The Christians likewise were severely punished, - a sort of people addicted to a new and mischievous superstition.”
Tacitus (65 A.D.) was a contemporary with the apostles, one of the most noted secular historians of the Roman world. Mentions Christ, and that he was put to death in the reign of Tiberius, as a criminal under the procurator, Pontius Pilate. He mentions Christianity as a pestilent superstition that broke out afresh and spread not only all over Judea, but Rome also. He continues by putting down the accounts of the persecution of the Christians.
Josephus was a Jewish priest who lived in the very days of the apostles, and in the land of Judea, in his History of the Jews, after referring to their sedition against Pontuis Pilate, bears testimony to Jesus Christ :
“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he performed many wonderful works. He was a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him many of the Jews and also many of the gentiles. This was the Christ.”
He continues with how Pilate condemned him to the cross, how he appeared to his followers alive again and how they were known as Christians.
Pontius Pilate - the very man by whose authority Christ was crucified has left on record a careful account of that event. The Romans were very careful to make a record of all important events occurring within the empire. This record is preserved in their “Acts of the Senate”. This document was referred to by early Christians in disputes with gentiles, and it was referenced in some of their writings. They would not have done this if this document was not in existence.
Jews - Of all nations, the Jews are the very ones who ought to know best whether there ever was such a man as Jesus Christ, and whether he was put to death in Judea as the new testament affirms. Jesus was a Jew, he lived among the Jews, all his apostles were Jews. It was among the Jews entirely that Christianity was first founded. Now if all this was false, and Christ had never lived, what would the testimony of the Jews be on the life of Christ and his ministry? Could they be persuaded that all these things happened right among their people yet without their knowledge? No. The whole nation would rise up and declare that no such person as Jesus Christ ever lived or died among them. This would settle the point. But now if you were to ask a Jew if he believes that a man such as Jesus of Nazareth, a Jew, lived in Judea 2000 years ago, and that he was put to death on a cross. Every Jew would say “Yes, we have no doubt of that, though we do not believe he was the true Messiah”
To quote Josh McDowell, “the evidence is conclusive. Jesus really lived among us and accomplished powerful works that even hostile, non-Christian sources do not fail to confirm. The skeptics about Jesus’ historicity are simply wrong.”
*main source: New Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Josh McDowell;
I replied with this response (edited), which I feel specifically is a strong argument. The reason I think this is that often the people asking the question of Jesus' existence logically don't hold a high view of scripture and it's accuracy. The accuracy of scripture is a whole other discussion, and could in itself be seen as a distraction from the main point, so I decided to reply from the perspective of extra-biblical accounts of the true historical Jesus. Here are some references and thoughts on that:
- Extra-biblical accounts of Jesus and Christians
There is more extra-biblical evidence of the person of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, than there is of Julius Caesar or Alexander the Great. This has been disputed and challenged, and so I reply with this:
Let’s start recently and move backwards. We have the Protestant Christians today, starting with Luther about 400 years back. So Christianity is definitely as old as that. We have the Roman Catholic Christians. We know that in the 9th Century AD there was a division between the Eastern (or Greek Orthodox) church and Western (or Roman) church. Hence we know it dates back to at least then. We also know that in the 4th Century AD, Christianity had become so powerful that it had pretty much taken possession of the Roman Empire, the mightiest power of the world at that time.
Going earlier, we have Eusebius in 315 AD who wrote a large volume, giving the history of Christ and his church. We also have the testimony of about a hundred Christian authors, dating to the first 3 Centuries.
Let’s set that aside, because if Jesus is in fact a myth made up by dubious early Christians (paranoid anyone?) - we’d need to focus on non-Christian accounts.
Here are 11 of the most noted authors and historians of antiquity, reaching from the middle of the fourth century back to the very days of Christ himself.
Julian (361 A.D.) Julian was a Roman emperor who saw fit to try very hard to put down Christianity. He wrote a book against Christianity, in which he acknowledged that there were multitudes of Christians in Greece and Italy in the days of the apostles, and that many of them were men of high character, such as Cornelius and Sergius Paulus, proconsul of Cyprus. [Lardner’s Works, vol viii. pp.394-411]
Porphyry (270 A.D.) This learned writer acknowledges that Christians were very numerous in the Roman Empire. He admits that miracles were wrought by the apostles (which he ascribed to a magic art). He endeavours to expose them to reproach as the cause of the calamities that befell the Roman Empire. [Horne’s Introduction, vol 1 p. 209]
Galen (220 A.D.) Acknowledges the virtuous principles of the Christians. [Lardner’s Works, vol. viii pp. 90, 91]
Marcus Antoninus (161 A.D.) mentions Christians as furnishing examples of an obstinate contempt of death [Id. vol vii. p 398]
Epictetus (109 A.D.) Mentions the fortitude and constancy of the Christians under persecution. He calls them Galileans.
Lucian (176 A.D.) in his numerous writings bears testimony to the leading facts and principles of Christianity. He says that Christ was crucified in Israel and was worshiped by the Christians. He mentions their contempt for this world, and how they courageously suffered for their religion. He mentions that they were noted for their honesty and integrity, that they were well known in the world, and that they were numerous in Pontus and Paphlagonia and adjoining countries. He ridicules many of their practices and doctrines.
Pliny the Younger (107 A.D.) wrote a detailed letter regarding Christians and seeking advice regarding carrying out his instructions to punish Christians.
Suetonius (65 A.D.) The first general persecution of the Christians was in 65 A.D. under Nero, the tyrant under whom Paul was martyred. This Roman historian said “The Christians likewise were severely punished, - a sort of people addicted to a new and mischievous superstition.”
Tacitus (65 A.D.) was a contemporary with the apostles, one of the most noted secular historians of the Roman world. Mentions Christ, and that he was put to death in the reign of Tiberius, as a criminal under the procurator, Pontius Pilate. He mentions Christianity as a pestilent superstition that broke out afresh and spread not only all over Judea, but Rome also. He continues by putting down the accounts of the persecution of the Christians.
Josephus was a Jewish priest who lived in the very days of the apostles, and in the land of Judea, in his History of the Jews, after referring to their sedition against Pontuis Pilate, bears testimony to Jesus Christ :
“Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he performed many wonderful works. He was a teacher of such men as received the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him many of the Jews and also many of the gentiles. This was the Christ.”
He continues with how Pilate condemned him to the cross, how he appeared to his followers alive again and how they were known as Christians.
Pontius Pilate - the very man by whose authority Christ was crucified has left on record a careful account of that event. The Romans were very careful to make a record of all important events occurring within the empire. This record is preserved in their “Acts of the Senate”. This document was referred to by early Christians in disputes with gentiles, and it was referenced in some of their writings. They would not have done this if this document was not in existence.
Jews - Of all nations, the Jews are the very ones who ought to know best whether there ever was such a man as Jesus Christ, and whether he was put to death in Judea as the new testament affirms. Jesus was a Jew, he lived among the Jews, all his apostles were Jews. It was among the Jews entirely that Christianity was first founded. Now if all this was false, and Christ had never lived, what would the testimony of the Jews be on the life of Christ and his ministry? Could they be persuaded that all these things happened right among their people yet without their knowledge? No. The whole nation would rise up and declare that no such person as Jesus Christ ever lived or died among them. This would settle the point. But now if you were to ask a Jew if he believes that a man such as Jesus of Nazareth, a Jew, lived in Judea 2000 years ago, and that he was put to death on a cross. Every Jew would say “Yes, we have no doubt of that, though we do not believe he was the true Messiah”
To quote Josh McDowell, “the evidence is conclusive. Jesus really lived among us and accomplished powerful works that even hostile, non-Christian sources do not fail to confirm. The skeptics about Jesus’ historicity are simply wrong.”
*main source: New Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Josh McDowell;
Wednesday, 06 June 2007
good ol' Chuck
"Behold, I am vile." --Job 40:4 One cheering word, poor lost sinner, for you! You think you must not come to God because YOU are vile. Now, there is not a saint living on earth but has been made to feel that he is vile. If Job, and Isaiah, and Paul were all obliged to say "I am vile," oh, poor sinner, will you be ashamed to join in the same confession? If divine grace does not eradicate all sin from the believer, how do you hope to do it yourself? and if God loves His people while they are yet vile, do you think your vileness will prevent His loving you? Believe on Jesus, you outcast of the world's society! Jesus calls _YOU_, and such as you are. "Not the righteous, not the righteous; Sinners, Jesus came to call." Even now say, "You have died for sinners; I am a sinner, Lord Jesus, sprinkle Your blood on me"; if you will confess your sin you shall find pardon. If, now, with all your heart, you will say, "I am vile, wash me," you shalt be washed now. If the Holy Spirit shall enable you from your heart to cry Just as I am, without one plea But that Your blood was shed for me, And that you bid me come to You, O Lamb of God, I come!" you shalt rise from reading this morning's portion with all your sins pardoned; and though you did wake this morning with every sin that man has ever committed on your head, you shalt rest to-night accepted in the Beloved; though once degraded with the rags of sin, you shalt be adorned with a robe of righteousness, and appear white as the angels are. For "now," mark it, "_Now_ is the accepted time." If you "believe on Him who justifies the ungodly you are saved." Oh! may the Holy Spirit give you saving faith in Him who receives the vilest. (by Charles Spurgeon, modern-englishified by me)
Tuesday, 06 March 2007
the hype continues
So, in response to all the hype about the documentary about Jesus' family ossuaries being found, thanks to a documentary (mockumentary?) by director James Cameron and Filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici. Check out the following links:
http://losttombofjesuschrist.com/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2007/0305lost-tomb-review.asp
http://dev.bible.org/bock/node/106
They put it much better than me. Question, has anyone else noticed the growing animosity towards Jesus Christ? We are becoming far more polarised on the issue of who Jesus is. Over the past few years we have been bombarded by Time, Newsweek, etc with very strong claims which attempt to undermine the gospel accounts of Jesus. His birth, His death and resurrection, and His life here on earth. I expect this to grow, and I expect the proponents of these stories to continue in trying to malign the name of my King. My only concern is those who are led astray due to bad information being the order of the day... the Dan Brown's don't bug me personally, but when they reach those who would otherwise simply be following Jesus, and they cause them to stumble, then I get annoyed.
As the apostle Paul said - (1 Cor 15:1-4,12-22)
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
...
But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
http://losttombofjesuschrist.com/
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2007/0305lost-tomb-review.asp
http://dev.bible.org/bock/node/106
They put it much better than me. Question, has anyone else noticed the growing animosity towards Jesus Christ? We are becoming far more polarised on the issue of who Jesus is. Over the past few years we have been bombarded by Time, Newsweek, etc with very strong claims which attempt to undermine the gospel accounts of Jesus. His birth, His death and resurrection, and His life here on earth. I expect this to grow, and I expect the proponents of these stories to continue in trying to malign the name of my King. My only concern is those who are led astray due to bad information being the order of the day... the Dan Brown's don't bug me personally, but when they reach those who would otherwise simply be following Jesus, and they cause them to stumble, then I get annoyed.
As the apostle Paul said - (1 Cor 15:1-4,12-22)
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
...
But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
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